Swag 3 lattes, la prochaine P7, Vivement les voiles 0 lattes ! qu'on revienne aux racines

[Mouette]

Un peu de lecture les gars :

http://www.boardseekermag.com/equipment_reviews/equipment/what-the-designers-think.htm

[Altoids]

Mouette @ 20/08/2012 - 14h41 a dit:

Un peu de lecture les gars :

http://www.boardseekermag.com/equipment_reviews/equipment/what-the-designers-think.htm

Super topo ...

[Goyter Man]

Altoids @ 20/08/2012 - 14h53 a dit:

Mouette @ 20/08/2012 - 14h41 a dit:

Un peu de lecture les gars :

http://www.boardseekermag.com/equipment_reviews/equipment/what-the-designers-think.htm

Super topo ...

+1

[PorhLoeizSkiff]

Mouette @ 20/08/2012 - 13h41 a dit:

Un peu de lecture les gars :

http://www.boardseekermag.com/equipment_reviews/equipment/what-the-designers-think.htm

J'me réserve ça pour plus tard

[dud]

Bon, c'est cool, j'aime bien comment ça dévit!


bon perso, je viens de resigner avec Point 7 pour la 4ème saison et je reste en 4 lattes!


je passe de quad en tri après avoir eu du single et un twin!

Histoire de tout essayer et de ne pas mourrir idiot!

(pour les boards je choisis par rapport à la largeur max et à 30cm)


sinon pour répondre aux détracteurs du quad, j'ai la starboard quad 2010 81l, génial, très polyvalente, j'avais réduit la taille d'ailerons et naiguais de 3.7 à 5.2. rien à dire sauf que c'est avec cette planche que je commencé les takas et les 3.6frontside, j'irai pas essayer avec un single!

c'est pas une fusée, mais pas un sabot non plus!

je passe sur tabou pocket 80.


et la swag dans tout ça?

si y en a un qui m'achète ma swell 3.7, je prens une swag 4.0 et renvoit le feeling dès que possible!

[Mouette]

Hop, encore un peu de lecture pour ceux que ca interesse et qui n'avaient pas vu cette page :

http://www.boardseekermag.com/equipment_reviews/equipment/4-battern-sails-results.htm

[Mouette]

Et un autre super article : (pensez bien à cliquer sur les liens "What the brands say")

http://www.boardseekermag.com/windsurfing-equipment-tests/2011/4.7-wave-sails-introduction.html


Vous l'aurez compris je suis fan de boardseeker

[Mouette]

Bon je voulais envoyer un mp à Goyter pour poursuivre une discussion qu'on avait commencé ensemble mais sa boite est pleine et j'ai pas envie de perdre mon message, alors je le mets ici :


>>>


Tiens pour continuer d'alimenter notre discussion sur les 4 lattes :


http://www.boardseekermag.com/windsurfing-equipment-tests/2011/4.7-wave-sails-introduction.html


Et en particulier :

Four or Five ?


Since the recent rise in popularity of 4-batten wave sails, it’s quite interesting to see how the three distinct ranges now work together. These allround 5-batten sails are now sandwiched between power wave and 4-batten, resulting in a fair degree of overlap at times. We can see the sense in engineering a bit more power into the larger sizes of all-round wave sails, but perhaps more interesting are the smaller sizes. Hence our next question:


If five battens are enough for, say, a 6.0m all-round wave sail, does it really need five battens in the smaller sizes, or will we perhaps see them morphing into 4-batten designs for these sizes in the future?

What the brands say…


MAUISAILS: Generally, as conditions get windier they get gustier, so stability is an important characteristic in small sizes as well. We’ve made both and currently the 5-batten outline still shows better balance and handling, even in the smaller sizes. Having a soft, breathing rig is also very important in small sizes, and we accomplish this through unique seam shaping methods and soft luff curves. This way we keep the draft stability of a 5-batten with a softer feel than most 4-batten sails.


RRD: There will always be a place for five battens as they offer a little extra stability and control, which will always be popular.


HOT SAILS MAUI: We still offer the Fire as a 6-batten, and it remains popular. A lot has to do with the mast length used. Most people don’t want to buy yet another mast, and a 340 is needed for a lot of ‘new’ shorter sail styles that often have four battens.


SEVERNE: Battens serve many purposes. They can provide stability, and they also provide more shaping options. (A fifth batten increases the shaping possibilities by 25%.) For a high wind sail, stability can be quite nice, so yes, I’ll still make small 5-batten sails as a lot of people sail in less than ideal conditions and can benefit from the wider wind range.


SIMMER: We can definitely see a sail line changing into a 4-batten sail in smaller sizes.


GAASTRA: The Manic in 4.0m and smaller already has a 4-batten configuration. It’s possible that the switch to four battens will start from a bigger size in the future, but that needs to be tested. Depends which way our development is going.


NORTH: We don’t see the biggest difference in wave sails in the number of battens so much, but rather in the position of the draft.

et

Multi -fin Friendly?


There’s definitely a split in opinion here, but it certainly looks like some of the brands may swap to 4-batten designs in their smaller ‘all-round’ wave sails (if they haven’t already done so). Thanks to their power, pull position and compact profile, 4-batten sails are being pitched as the perfect partners to quad-fin waveboards. And as quad-fins currently top the sales charts, it does beg a question...


Are 5-batten ‘all-round’ sails actually a bit mismatched for the current trend in waveboards?

What the brands say…


POINT-7: It’s more about the whole design of the sail. You could make a 4-batten sail to suit a singlefin! All our sail lines are now made to match multifin boards as well, whether it’s a 4-batten or 5-batten. Where you place the profile and how the leech reacts makes it more or less suitable for a quad, rather than four or five battens. However, naturally a 4-batten sail would suit a multi-fin setup.


GOYA: The 5-batten Guru is well suited to quads. It’s a quick, manoeuvre-oriented, comfortable, controllable sail, and feels great on the smooth and directional, loose ride of a quad-fin. A sailor looking for more low end lift, and who is also really driving his quad hard – turn after turn, fly back upwind – that sailor is a great candidate for the 4-batten Banzai. The Banzai is a lift generator that loves to manoeuvre.


GAASTRA: Sure, they’re suitable for quads.

Generally we can say that 4-batten sails are more suited for surfing the wave and using the board more in riding, while these 5-batten sails give more speed and are more all-round in performance. It’s a matter of personal style.


NEILPRYDE: The current trend is that most cross-shore boards are quad, so all-round wave sails work perfectly on them. They will, of course, feel a bit heavier than a 4-batten sail, but this isn’t a reason for not using them on a quad. In fact, I find quads feel between a single-fin and twinser; they actually spin out much less in a straight line and can take more foot pressure when sailing upwind than twinsers. For most of our testing we use quads and thrusters in cross-shore conditions.


NORTH: Again it’s not so much the number of battens but mostly the sail’s draft position, which has to match with your board. In general you can say a draft forward sail works best on single-fin boards, whereas a ‘draft-even’ (i.e. pull on both hands) sail works best on multi-fin boards.


Adrian Jones: So, it seems that for various reasons, these 5-batten sails are well suited to quad-fins – particularly if you’re using a quad for anything other than down-the-line use. For dedicated down-the-line waveriding 4-batten sails are probably a better match, but most of us don’t sail in those conditions – or at least not all the time!

Concernant l'histoire du creux préformé, voici en rouge un extrait issu de cette page que je trouve intéressant:

What design characteristics differentiate your all-round wave sail from the power wave that we tested last month?

Take it away...


POINT-7: Normally it has just a bit less power, but a good wind range overall. It’s a fun sail for all conditions. So, just a bit less profile and a more forgiving leech.


GAASTRA: Shorter and wider sail body. Boom length is only slightly shorter. Lower clew position, less luff curve, a Dacron luff panel, and a flatter profile.


SIMMER: Higher aspect ratio. Less power. Softer feeling.


NORTH: The Ice simply has less pre-shaping and a slightly shorter boom than the Duke. Less pre-shaping means better on/off. Together with the shorter boom length this also leads to better handling. So generally the sails are made to deliver a bit less power, but also to handle and manoeuvre more easily with shorter booms and a softer feel.

Voici également un passage sur la position du creux, notamment les limites d'un creux positionné trop en avant ou en arrière :

On the pull !


The other massive difference between these sails is the pull position, or power point. It’s generally a bit further forward than on the power waves of last month’s test, but there’s still a big range between the sails within this group.


Where do you prefer the power point?

What the brands say…


MAUISAILS: On the Legend we like to keep the draft in a stable, moderately forward position to give the sail good balance, a light feel and the ability to instantly depower while keeping just enough feedback in the back hand to help with getting going and pulling off snappy manoeuvres. Sails with drafts too far forward tend to be gutless, while sails with drafts too far back can be unstable and hard to control.


POINT-7: Having the drive forward is going to give a more locked down, drivey feel, really engaging the rail of the board as you bottom turn. Having the power further back gives a slightly more powerful feel as it pulls on the back hand, and in more cross-on conditions this helps provide power when going clew-first back at the wave. Again it’s down to personal preference. Some prefer the more back-handed sail, while some prefer a more drivey, forward pulling sail.


HOT SAILS MAUI: Stable mid-draft can be fun and loose in the surf, but mid-draft and stable rarely go hand-in-hand. Forward draft is rangy and efficient, but can deliver a dead feel. I try to blend these size by size to deliver a lively but well controlled sail.


SEVERNE: The advantage of a forward pull position is it gives a lighter feel, and the advantage of the back pull position is it gives you something to pull against to initiate manoeuvres. So for the S-1 we make the sail physically light, and then move the pull position back to get the best of both worlds.


GOYA: Forward driving sails are amazing for high speed sailing, comfort in high wind, and smooth, tight transitions. As you move the centre of effort back you create a sail that powers more steadily, is more explosive in its power delivery, and can become quicker to change direction (think of a soap bubble darting in the breeze compared to something less round). Higher winds will challenge a draft aft sail more quickly than a draft forward sail. It can take a little more wind to get a draft forward sail going, especially if it’s a shallow foil. One thing you never want is a draft that moves back. Wherever your centre of effort is, it should be stable.


GAASTRA: As a back pull helps in onshore conditions, a more forward oriented pull (as in the Manic) is better for all-round character, and is nice as it pulls you through the turns when waveriding.


RRD: Forward pulling tends to be more stable and easier to control at the top end, but offers a little less grunt in the hands for the lower end of the wind range. It doesn’t always means it’s less powerful, but there’s less pressure to work with. More back hand pressure can give you more of a feeling of what’s going on in the sail – if it’s loaded with power or underdone. This can sometimes give a throttle effect in the hands. In the end it comes down to rider preference.


NEILPRYDE: Draft placed a long way forward will definitely offer more stability when overpowered, but it compromises lift, early planing and can feel heavy on the front arm. With the draft too far back you can get lots of lift, even from a pretty flat profile, but the sail can get very backhandy and hard to control in gusts. I shape for the best balance between the two, but in general flatter sails can have the draft a bit further back while fuller sails (like our Atlas) need to have it further forward to ensure the deeper profile stays well locked in place when powered up.


Adrian Jones: As with most things, there are compromises here. A sail with its power positioned forward will be lighter in the hands and more controllable at the top end, but less powerful and direct. A sail with its power positioned further back will have more power in the hands and a sharper response, but less control at the top end. Whether you prefer forward, back or somewhere around middle is a question of personal preference and sailing style, but perhaps most important is the comment Jason Diffin (Goya) makes when he says that the one thing you don’t want is a sail where the power moves back. Wherever the centre of effort is, it should stay put!

Voila, bonne lecture !